Dr Marthe Kiley-
Marthe Kiley-
1. What led you to a career in animal behaviour?
I decided when I was 6 I wanted
to find out what went on the head of my duiker, pony and puppy. Animal behaviour
did not exist as a discipline, so worked away at it alone in Africa with no direction
or literature, but then Tinbergen offered me a place for a doctorate at Oxford, (
which I did not take up because it was to work on gulls) and put me in touch with
one or two others beginning the study.
2. What are your current main research interests?
The last remaining welfare question
is what does the individual animal think of the environment in which he is put? ..
that is large mammal cognition, & minds. This involves both their living conditions
and their teaching. Animal educational psychology ( improving teaching of animals
based on work done with gifted children) it an area which I am developing as a new
science based not only on science but also on critically assessed folk knowledge
and experience, absence of preconceived notions, and philosophy of mind.
3. What do you think is the most intriguing unanswered question in the field of animal
behaviour?
Trying to assess a different species different point of view of the world,
his subjectivity.
4. What do you consider to be the most serious welfare issue in domestic horses?
Raping of mares by tying them up twitching etc for copulation with a stallion who
has no social knowledge, current practice for all registered horses! A lack of understanding
of what it is to be a horse, and how learning leading to bad handling & training
and many behavioural problems that are easily avoided. Horse keeping and training
is steeped in traditional practises some of which cause considerable suffering to
horses and humans. Unfortunately the new vogue of ‘natural horsemen’ are not changing
this, just replacing one set of traditions and dogma with another!.
5. If horse owners should change one thing about the way they keep their horses in
the UK, what would that be?
Make it illegal to keep horses stabled for 24 hours in
individual stables (as is the case in Switzerland now), make it illegal not to
give horses access to forage/fibre foods most of the time, and ensure the horses
go out with others and have some social life with their own species.
6. What do you consider to be the most common misconception surrounding the domestic
horse?
That he behaves according to ‘instinct’ so nothing can be done about it, he
does not think or reason and therefore is stupid and has to have everything repeated
to learn it. He actually learns very fast (within 7 trials for a new simple action,
often faster than 5 year old children) IF he is properly taught. Lack of understanding
of his quick learning, remembering, understanding cause and effect, ability to predict
and reasoning, results in unhelpful practices and lack of cognitive stimulation (by
either scientist or keeper) which confirms these preconceptions born from lack of
serious thought.
7. Could you tell us a little about your Eco research and Education Centre?
We are
testing out whether or not an Ecological Farm defined as: A self sustaining diversified
high net yielding farm where wildlife conservation is integrated with food production
and the whole farm is a nature reserve and where we experiment with a further understanding
and provision of a life of quality for all our animals. It is a very beautiful 180h
site in the mountains of La Drome France. We do research on animal welfare issues
large mammal minds and improved teaching. We have the world’s longest running research
programme on a herd of horses the Druimghigha Stud now in its 7th generation and
continue to do observational & experimental research on them. We run courses, take
students of all levels, and have an academy for large mammal educational psychology.
Web site www.eco-
8. Could you tell us about your work in Africa?
We were one of the first to start
teaching elephants to be ridden in Africa using the improved teaching derived from
work with gifted children. Now it has become a tourist industry but we continue to
teach the handlers and owners about welfare & teaching all large mammals. Our academy
in South Africa is soon to open for government approved training courses for people
from all over the world dealing with animals: zoo & wildlife managers and keepers,
tourist businesses with animals, farmers, pet keepers & trainers, circus people,
those using mammals for therapy of humans, gun dogs, guide dogs, monkeys & dogs
for the blind or deaf, use of animals for helping with leadership & human relations.
(Publications available from email & textbook in March 2012).
9. Your book ‘Horse watch: the equine report’ describes the study of your group of
horses that you have owned for six equine generations. What are the two main lessons
you have learnt from your studies of the group?
That ‘dominance hierarchy’ in horses
is an unsupported dogma that is only created in unnatural situations, that we must
look at horses (and other animals) in terms of the roles they each acquire in the
society and measure and understand better their personalities. Their social lives
are as complex as humans social lives, like it or not!
That life time experiences, as in humans, has a very much greater effect on their subsequent behaviour than genes. Cultures are created in every stable, the important thing is to develop a culture that enriches the life of the horses and the humans involved.
Horse Watch is the first book which has attempted to outline the ways we may be able to assess species subjectivity (their individual point of view) but written for the interested layman as well as the scientist. It is the first one written by a modern scientist/philosopher that has tried to do this, other than for the great apes and possibly dogs. It is available from us or from Amazon.
10. Do you have any more books on the horizon?
My son and I are just completing a
textbook for the academy called ‘Exploding myths, large mammal welfare & teaching’,
available from us or Xlibris in March 2012.